View Full Version : 4 link joints

03-05-2006, 10:52 PM
I am going with a 4 link set up and I am wondering who runs what and why? What do you like/dislike? Thanks Jim

03-06-2006, 12:40 AM
Wish you were closer, but maybe I can still help some how. What do you want to know. Mine works well for me. But then so does Hardline's and TX_Zuki's.:mrgreen:

03-06-2006, 01:04 AM
Solid aluminum is being reccomended for the arms, and Johnny joints for the end links. Any thoughts on this? Thanks Jim

03-06-2006, 02:02 AM
I don't know much but I heard that tube it strong than solid. I don't know why it would be but that is what I heard. Maybe someone could correct me if I'm wrong.

03-06-2006, 08:30 AM
I have heard the same thing. I don't remember the specific type of aluminum, but it was like 2, 2 1/2 in diameter and was very expensive. I am told it is on several comp buggies with no failures as of yet. I am windering weather hiems, or johnny joints would be better? This thing will be a "Legaly" tagged (LOL) trail beast. Jim

03-06-2006, 05:40 PM
aluminum does not "reflex" after shock like a steel. if aluminum gets hit it absorbs the shock, but does not rebound. Steel also absorbs the shock, but it does rebound. That's why most people do not use aluminum in stress points, it snaps unpredictably. Be aware of this before you pay extra $ for aluminum. If you make it thick enough you probilbly will never hit this upper stress limit.

also pipes / tubing only appear tougher per pound because the center part of a shaft basically does nothing. Under sheer forces does nothing, due to the fact that it's basically stationary, under neather compression or extension. Under rotational forces the center of the shaft basically too close to the center of rotation to do anything important.

The farther out the mass of an object is located from the center of the force, the more force it has acting on it. Think of it as really small levers acting on the object with the length from the center of force to the point you are mesuring. So the size of the lever in the center of the the shaft is really small, but on the outside the lever is bigger. We all know that when something is stuck, get a longer breaker bar. The principle of the bigger hollow driveshaft is the same.

03-06-2006, 05:56 PM
Whats the best stuff to run? What about chromoly? The aluminum was reccomended. It is very pricey at $25 a foot. This is from a local off road shop. Thanks Jim.

03-06-2006, 06:28 PM
Whats the best stuff to run? What about chromoly? The aluminum was reccomended. It is very pricey at $25 a foot. This is from a local off road shop. Thanks Jim.

I'm not gonna directly recomend anything, because I don't know everything yet. what I will recomend is start reading pirate4x4.com, some of the buildups there are sick, and try to look at other sources for the tubing. Most places use DOM style tubing, but there is several types. I have also heard of people welding v style stock to the bottom of DOM tubing to act as sliders. I will probibly do this to mine, even though it will add a lot of weight.

I am going to build up my truck too, and I am thinking I am going to get some stuff from spidertrax, because they will make the links up for you custom (for a fee of course). I don't mean to endorse them over anyone else.

Here's a link to their tubing section linky (http://www.spidertrax.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.26/.f). Steel is going to be heavier than aluminum, but the price range is also better. The most expensive is $17 per foot, the cheapest is $3.60 per foot. You would also have to eather tap the ends, or weld on ends linky (http://www.spidertrax.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.25/.f), asuming you are using rod ends linky (http://www.spidertrax.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.34/.f). You will need to decide if you are going to use rod ends or johnny joints. There are benfits and disadvantages to both.

03-06-2006, 06:37 PM
Tell me about the joints pro's and con's.

03-06-2006, 06:42 PM
I have the Johnny Joints, but can't compare them to the heims, I never had heims, but the johnny joints seem to be stronger and I have no complaints.

I know Hardline is also pleased with his johnny joints.

Also a good guy to buy johnny joints is www.mad4wd.com He had the best price on Pirate.

03-07-2006, 03:54 AM
Powerstroken peterson's 4 wheel and offroad had a write up a few months back about the pro's and con's of different types of tubing. I don't know if you get that mag or not but I will look and see if I can find it to tell you what month it was. You could find someone with it I'm sure.

03-07-2006, 04:08 PM
I was told about it but I couldn't find it.

03-07-2006, 06:52 PM
There are so many people making these "Johnny joints" whos are the best ones to get?

03-07-2006, 07:00 PM
There are so many people making these "Johnny joints" whos are the best ones to get?Please call Larry at www.mad4wd.com he had the best price and has beautiful johnny joints, made very strong and they are rebuildable.

I also think Rockrat sells them, but not sure on that.

03-07-2006, 07:44 PM
Rock rat is making his own 2 1/2 weeks out. I also believe Mad is making thier own? Each seem to differ a little between them. Some are more expensive when you add the greasable bolt and jamb nut.

03-07-2006, 11:03 PM
Johnny joints:
1. Are REALLY flexable (30 degrees)
2. Are rebuildable
3. Greaseable
4. field fixable.
6. can buy rebuild kits very easy (aka napa stocks parts)
7. ? please add more here, I've never had a set.

1. snap ring can brake (not really an issue, I've never heard of them breaking)
2. non adjustable link length. get your link length right the first time. (unless you spend extra for a wielded stud)
3. more expensive

Nutral (can be both good and bad):
1. Must be welded on (unless you buy the welded stud)
2. has some (read practically none) movement in the urathane bushings.

Helm joints:
1. field replaceable (assuming you can get the shaft out)
2. easy install and removal (just unscrew)
3. allows slightly varaible 4 link length. (screw them in your link is a little shorter, screw them out it's a little longer) allows for fine tuning of suspension due to tire wear, crappy math, etc.
4. cheaper
5. true "hard" link. it's all steel.
6. flexable ( 15 to 25 degrees)

1. non lubricated
2. no posiblity of rebuild.
3. can squeeek due to non-lubrication.
4. not as flexable as johnny joints.

those are the basic info I found so far. anyone got links for more info? I found some johnny joints that look pritty sweet on currie's site. linky (http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/Product.aspx?id=1263)

Basically what I gathered is that johnny joints are used for suspensions and Helm joints are used for connecting rods, shifter rods, steering setups etc, where the flex of the urathane in the johnny joints is not ok and degree of movement is not as great as true suspension linkage. Anybody else observe this?

03-07-2006, 11:09 PM
found an article on johnny joints linky (http://www.fourwheeler.com/techarticles/129_0301_jj/index2.html)

03-07-2006, 11:29 PM
Thanks for the link and info. I know some of those Hiem's can be around $100 each. I have 1...LOL

03-08-2006, 07:44 PM
Well, I just bought 16 Johnny joints with the 1 1/4" with jamb nuts, and the grease bolt. I don't see the grease bolt doing much? I don't see how the "ball" would get greased? I will take a peek at them and see about adding a zerk to the shell.

03-12-2006, 05:07 PM
The center ball has a hole in it going to the insde of the urethane.

03-19-2006, 10:58 PM
Well I got my Johnny joints. These things are pretty sweet. I thought they would have a cheesy bolt welded to them? Nope they are made with the threads and I was able to get 8 LH and 8 RH with jamb nuts and the greasable bolts. They come with zerk fittings in the tube also. 16 of these puppy's are freakin heavy.

03-19-2006, 11:19 PM
Where did you get them? What material are you gonna use for links?

03-20-2006, 06:24 PM
I asked around to several vendors and didn't get any favorable responses, so I ordered them directly from Currie. I am not sure yet, 7075 aluminum is being reccomended to me. What ever I use I want it to be a one time deal. I want it beefy enough I don't have to worry about bending, or replacement.

04-01-2006, 02:52 PM
I am considering .375 wall chromoly for atleast my lower links if not them all. What do you think? That should be 3/8 thick plus being chromoly.

04-01-2006, 08:58 PM
I would go with that over the 7075 Jim.

04-02-2006, 09:22 AM
Thanks man. I need to find some inserts as it is to large an inside diameter to tap for 1 1/4" 12 tpi

04-02-2006, 11:57 AM
What is the drill size for 1 1/4 thread? I would think you need atleast a 1" ID. With .375 wall that would be 1 3/4 OD tubing.

04-05-2006, 04:19 PM
It is either going to be .250 or .375 wall 2" 4130 chromoly. I just ordered the ends off of a guy on Pirate they are chromoly ends. Someone is telling me that the .250 wall is actually stronger than the .375 wall? I don't get it.

04-08-2006, 09:14 PM
I don't fully agree with all of the chromoly stuff everyone rages about. Sure you can save weight, because it is stronger than mild steel when comparing thicknesses.

However, chromoly doesn't fully develop it's strength until it is heat treated. Now links vs. a full chassis is different. You can heat treat links a heck of a lot easier than a whole chassis.

Oh ya, I'm running heims on the axle end and spring bushing on the frame end. I'm satisfied with the flex, but the heims are starting to rattle and squeak, but a little wd40 takes care of the squeak for a while.

04-11-2006, 05:53 AM
I have heard different things about the heat treating. I heard it was a myth and doesnt need to be done. I have heard however that chromoly has to be TIG weldled and the weld cannot exceed the same diameter as the piece being welded. Another advantage to chromoly is it has "memeory" so it will "flex" a litlle and come back compared to mild steel just bending. Plus if I go with the .375 wall stuff I think I might actually have something "Jimmy proof"?....LOL We will see.