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PACKINHEAT
04-05-2007, 12:38 AM
Has anyone tried a performance 1.3 build? I understand that whenever we rebuild these little devils we always shoot for a little more zing. I'm tlking about a true hi po style build of a 1.3.

Things like-
.40 over block
Balanced rotating assembly
high compression pistons
Port/polish head and intake
Maybe deck the block or shave the head to get the compression up
Obviously a header
Camshaft (low end)

Aspiration options-
Weber (I know some people HATE them)
FI
Side draft Carb(s)

If I can pull 140 ponies out of my sub 1200 CC V twin with only minor mods we should be able to get at least 120 out of a 4 jug zook right?


Just looking to get some other opinions and thoughts.

Itsmejoe231
04-05-2007, 12:53 AM
If you are into doing all that I'd say go for it and take pics while you are at it.

Me, I dont know much about the internals as far as a rebuild goes so, I swapped in a 1.6 8v with the TBI.

Michael Potaczaka
04-05-2007, 01:46 AM
Well my 1.3 is 20 over with flat top pistons,cam,header and dual 40 webers and it turns my 33' with stock gearing like a bat outta hell.

Billjohn
04-05-2007, 10:01 AM
The one I'm building/testing now is not as in depth as you are looking at, but it has given impressive 'seat of the pants' improvements so far. We will wait for the dyno testing to get hard numbers. But so far it bored 20 over, flat top pistons, RV2 cam, header, and will soon get a 38DGAS Weber after a little tweaking. Just finishing up breakin. Here is what the rebuild kit came with...
Water Pump
Timing Belt
Timing Belt Tensioner
Timing Cover
Head Bolt Set
Rv2 Camshaft
2 Rocker Shafts
8 Rocker Arms
8 Tappets + 8 Adjuster Nuts
Set of 4 Flat Top Pistons
Full set of Chrome Rings
4 new Piston Pins
Rod Bearing Set
Main Bearing Set
Thrust Washer Set
Oil Pump
Full Gasket Set
Viton Valve Stem Seals
4 Italian Osvat Intake Valves
4 Italian Exhaust Valves
Reground Crankshaft
4 Remanufactured Rods
PaceSetter Header
Redline 38DGAS Weber Carb
With, Linkage, Adapter, Gaskets, Bolts and Air Cleaner

I figure with the gears, trans change, and suspension changes it should break triple digits before we are through...

GAZUKI
04-05-2007, 09:26 PM
If you can do all the machine work yourself then yeah you got a good sleeper but if you are going for the most bang for the buck it aint gonna happen. Don't get me wrong I love being the underdog, I will argue to the end that a big block aint nothing but a boat anchor when you can build 460 plus cubic inch small blocks (with a quarter of the weight), but there is an a$$ of work involved to make those rods fit, in the end there is no replacement for displacement but I am not here to discourage you heck I have a turbo from a wrx on my 1.3.

PACKINHEAT
04-06-2007, 02:36 AM
"I have a turbo from a wrx on my 1.3."-GAZUKI

That has got to be one of the most insane zuk mods I have heard of yet, its freakin Awesome!!!

Anybody used any aftermarket rockers?

How about a 1400?

Whats the length difference in the Connecting rods from the 1.6 and 1.3? Relocate some wrist pins and you could have a 1450 stroker??? Maybe some parts combos of mix and match with the rotating assemblies? Something along the lines of a 383, or a 355 SBC?

I'm basing all this off the only experience with Hi-po motors I've got (chevy SB V-8s and Harleys).

Any ideas???

Does anyone have any aftermarket Hardparts they would reccomend?

What about this Zuk 1.8 motor I have Heard rumors about? How did Suzuki do it?

ian
04-06-2007, 03:27 AM
i just got done bulding a 1.6 8v with an isky cam callmine hedder and dual 40 mm webbers i want to dyno it but think i broke the triple digt markrockonn

PACKINHEAT
04-08-2007, 04:19 AM
there is no reason a 1.3 4 banger built right can't make 140 ponies. Like I sadi my V-rod makes 140 and its an FI 1150CC. My Carbed Buell made 135 with 1203 ccs with a single 38mm carb. If a 1300 GSXR can break 200 MPH we can squeeze 140 ponies out of our sammies, we just need the right formula.

Good luck with the dyno!

billsbar
04-09-2007, 11:23 AM
I think the problem is your comparing apples to oranges.
Your looking at a bike motor build as being the same as a 4x4 and it's not.
for a bike your building a motor to push a 500-800 lb vehicle with virtually no unsprung weight. So horsepower is your main objective. Lets look at a real nice build, and remember to get this kind of numbers this is basically a race motor.


http://www.nrhsperformance.com/images/drdannorlin82.gif

NRHS Stage 3 STD heads

NRHS/Axtell 82" kit
NRHS Custom Exhaust System

Red Shift Cams




S&S Super D carburetor

Crane HI-4E Ignition


The problem with getting this kind of horsepower out of such a small cubic engine is peak horsepower is at over 7000 rpms, and peak torque is over 5000rpm. Also look how low a number the peak torque is , it's only 106.3 foot pounds. No way near enough to to push a 2500lb vehicle running 33's easily down the highway. And the power curve is unusable in trail crawling.
I think the real challenge with these Sami motors are how to build some extra horsepower but also as much torque as possible with out raising the power band to the point where it's not usable, gotta remember it's only 1.3L.


just my opinion

AK SloPok
04-09-2007, 01:32 PM
I am curious to see how well my 1.3 will run. What I don't know is if the previous owner bumped the compression or did anything internally. I do know that it was rebuilt and with good parts so I assume that the internals are at least on par with stock equipment. As for mods, header, Midwest performance intake, Weber 32/36, electric fuel pump and Isky cam. I think it will do pretty good for my setup but like I said, I haven't even really driven it before I started the "build"...

Mikey
04-09-2007, 06:40 PM
look around here:
http://www.teamswift.net/index.php

riev zuki
04-09-2007, 08:41 PM
I think the problem is your comparing apples to oranges.
Your looking at a bike motor build as being the same as a 4x4 and it's not.
for a bike your building a motor to push a 500-800 lb vehicle with virtually no unsprung weight. So horsepower is your main objective. Lets look at a real nice build, and remember to get this kind of numbers this is basically a race motor.


http://www.nrhsperformance.com/images/drdannorlin82.gif

NRHS Stage 3 STD heads

NRHS/Axtell 82" kit
NRHS Custom Exhaust System

Red Shift Cams




S&S Super D carburetor

Crane HI-4E Ignition


The problem with getting this kind of horsepower out of such a small cubic engine is peak horsepower is at over 7000 rpms, and peak torque is over 5000rpm. Also look how low a number the peak torque is , it's only 106.3 foot pounds. No way near enough to to push a 2500lb vehicle running 33's easily down the highway. And the power curve is unusable in trail crawling.
I think the real challenge with these Sami motors are how to build some extra horsepower but also as much torque as possible with out raising the power band to the point where it's not usable, gotta remember it's only 1.3L.


just my opinion


Well said, I'm getting ready to build a 1.6 8v. I'm in the R&D stage of it. I think the 1.6 is just a better base for a motor (considering you want to stay with 8 valves). I'll stay with stock valve size but port and flow anc cc the cambers myself. I'm going to bore it the max size. True blueprint and full balance. I'll comput the comp ratio. I'm not sure about cam shaft. I'm considering custom profile. The torque is in the cam choice. Still not sure of the fuel system. I have some carbs and injection stuff left over from my rally car's, that just may work for a custom F.I. (Mega squirt stuff) set up. Carb is easier, F.I. is way better. Thorley Header. When it comes to putting an Engine together it's about details. And what purpose you want it for. IMHO.

fcdrifter13
04-13-2007, 02:55 AM
Nothing beats boost whether it be a blower or turbo, its cheaper to build and makes more power than an NA build and also more usable power at lower RPMs. And with the recent developments in turbo technologies lag and power drop off are becoming a thing of the past. A small T3 on th sammy would spool right around 1800-2200 rpm and you would have usuable power from there on up. Ts can be found from junkyards and pay and pull for cheap along with an intercooler and most of the other parts. I picked up a 14b(mitsu turbo from an eclipse) for 10$ that needed rebuilt and that only cost me 75$, a volvo intercooler was only 35$. Blow through turbo setups, especially on webers and holley carbs, are easy to set up and easy to tune.

If It was me I would do a stock rebuild, maybe some better rods and crank, and a lil head work. Get a small T3, volvo or ebay or other cheap intercooler, a good carb that can be setup for blow through, and rework a throley header to mount a turbo onto, or make a manifold and get all the other lil odds and ends like a waste gate or port the one on the turbo if internally gated, BOV(blow off valve) and you'll have to find an oil supply and maybe a coolant supply depending on the turbo and that should be about it.

PACKINHEAT
04-13-2007, 05:39 PM
I think the problem is your comparing apples to oranges.
Your looking at a bike motor build as being the same as a 4x4 and it's not.
for a bike your building a motor to push a 500-800 lb vehicle with virtually no unsprung weight. So horsepower is your main objective. Lets look at a real nice build, and remember to get this kind of numbers this is basically a race motor.


http://www.nrhsperformance.com/images/drdannorlin82.gif

NRHS Stage 3 STD heads

NRHS/Axtell 82" kit
NRHS Custom Exhaust System

Red Shift Cams




S&S Super D carburetor

Crane HI-4E Ignition


The problem with getting this kind of horsepower out of such a small cubic engine is peak horsepower is at over 7000 rpms, and peak torque is over 5000rpm. Also look how low a number the peak torque is , it's only 106.3 foot pounds. No way near enough to to push a 2500lb vehicle running 33's easily down the highway. And the power curve is unusable in trail crawling.
I think the real challenge with these Sami motors are how to build some extra horsepower but also as much torque as possible with out raising the power band to the point where it's not usable, gotta remember it's only 1.3L.


just my opinion


I dont' really disagree at all, butwhy can't it be orappanges?? screwey. My buell (98S1W), using really close set up to what you have posted Nallin stage 2 heads, 1250cc jugs, , was close to 125 ponies (I was wrong ealier in the post, I read your set up and thought I probably was, so I went and nfound a old dyno sheet in the filing cabnet)and made 111 ft pounds. Most of the torque was in the 3800-5500 RPM Range. Thats pretty close to the power band of a zuk 1300 now right?

I just think if I use some real quality parts, a true Bal and blue print, maybe shave the head, or find some raise comp pistons. Coupled with a ported intake and some bigger valves, or a 8v head with a decent cam breaking into the 110+ HP range should not be that tough should it? Hell I guess anything is beeter than a tired stocker pumping out 60 ponies. I just expect too much outaa my "roach motor" I guess.

Know this- I will waste my time and money tryin' and those of you who probably know better, and no doubt have more common sense can't stop me!!!screwey

Maybe a propane motor will be the direction.

But in all seriousness, if anyone has used a quality engine product that they think is great let me know please. And thanks to eveyone for their input I do appreciate it.

billsbar
04-13-2007, 06:05 PM
Good luck I hope you get it, but If your going to spend a bunch of money on good aftermarket parts why wouldn't you spend a little extra and buy a 1.6L builder. Then you are already a bunch of power ahead before you even start building.

GAZUKI
04-13-2007, 10:46 PM
FCdrifter13 I am running a volvo intercooler also, must be a common junk yard swap!

PACKINHEAT
04-14-2007, 12:33 AM
thats probably the best idea, but 1.6s are not the easiest to come by here in Alaska.

PACKINHEAT
04-14-2007, 12:34 AM
Can anyone post pics of their turbo setups?