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rubicon4wheeler
01-04-2010, 02:45 PM
My Samurai isn't the only one in which I've noticed this, so I want to know from any alternator gurus if this is normal behavior we shouldn't be worrying about:

We have the GM CS130 alternator, a common 105amp unit. Ever since new, the voltage bounces between ~14-16 volts when charging, instead of holding a steady ~14.6 (or whatever it's "supposed" to be at). I can see this pulsing (1-2 times a second) in my analog volt meter as well as in the varying brightness of the dash lights and headlights, and it doesn't matter what the engine's RPM is.

The only time it doesn't do this is if I've discharged my battery a bunch, then the alternator will be charging hard and it will hold steady at charge voltage without the pulsing.

So, do these two different brand new alternators have bad voltage regulators? Or is this just normal behavior for them? I wouldn't be worried about it if I wasn't staring at my volt meter's bouncing needle and watching my headlights pulsing.

Itsmejoe231
01-04-2010, 03:13 PM
How do you have it wired in?

rubicon4wheeler
01-04-2010, 03:19 PM
Per the instructions with this kit (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SUZUKI-SAMURAI-1-3L-GM-CS130-ALTERNATOR-CONVERSION-KIT_W0QQitemZ330390010833QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors _Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item4cecc77bd1).

Kermit
01-04-2010, 10:34 PM
I run a CS130 (not the kit in the thread) and don't have any issues with pulsing voltage. I have never noticed anything and checked it when I got home. I get a steady 14.6V at idle.

I have all three original cables/wires connected to alternator: charge (output), voltage sense and idiot light.

Itsmejoe231
01-04-2010, 10:42 PM
If you bought it from that guy, give him a call.

crazyatvn
01-04-2010, 11:09 PM
I am looking to do this also I watching this thread.

threewhd
01-05-2010, 06:39 PM
I have a standard gm one wire 85 amp alt. and have no problems like this the power is nice and steady at 14v at idle.

rockmike
01-05-2010, 07:09 PM
This is not good,I cant think of a thing that would cause such a symtom.Sounds like its kinda rithmic.I wonder if there a relay wired in that circuit thats causing this.

Pull it out and have it bench tested and see if its still doing it off the vehicle,if doesnt then im on the right track and its somthing else in the system causing this.I cant amagine the bulbs in the rigs system are going to handle this much longer,they have to be pissed.

rubicon4wheeler
01-05-2010, 08:27 PM
I didn't find anything in this CS130 manual (http://www.alternatorparts.com/cs130_sbpage1.htm), but maybe I'm just being dumb?

rubicon4wheeler
01-05-2010, 08:34 PM
I just heard back from the seller. He was great when I dealt with him originally, and he got back to me quickly again this time. Here's what he wrote:

I read your e-mail today and after reading it I went to the shop
and ran some tests. We hooked up a alternator to the computer tester. We
spun the alternator at normal RPM and pulled wire at a time to see if we
could create this condition with a loose connection. We found it either
charged hooked up or it did not charge unhooked. there was no in between.
There could be a loose connection in your pigtail wires. This alternator
will need to be tested. It is best to take it out of the vehicle and have
it tested at a part store. This will eliminate the alternator or find it to
be faulty. Or you can take a wire or tester and jump connection from the
positive stud on the alternator. then put the other end of the wire to the
sence wire from the pigtail. this will be the red wire. while this is
connected car running test the volts coming out of the positive stud on the
alternator.it should be pretty much steady. 14.5 the alternator is designed
to shut down at 16 volts so it doesn't over charge. If not take the
alternator out and have it tested. If it is not working properly send it to
me I will have to take it apart and see what is going on. I will fix it and
send it back to you. I warrantee these alternators for one year from date
of sale. If it is past I would still like to know what went wrong and fix
it. AS for the forums I would like to talk to these people. Could you give
me the site. I'M a recent member of a couple of these sites. I believe in
my product and will make it right. you can call me(Paul) at 603-477-5999 or
go to my site...adventure-off-rd.com

-adventure-off-rd

The thing that gets me is that both of these alternators were new when I received them, with the bench test printouts enclosed. On two different Samurais, they both behave the same way. And it's done it from the beginning when we first installed them - this isn't a development that's occurred after the alternator got broken-in.

I just figured this was normal behavior for them. I'll have to investigate further.

Kermit
01-06-2010, 08:10 AM
How is your alternator connected? Do you have the charge wire feeding the stock harness or do you have a stragith run to the battery from the alternator? I wonder if you have an issue external to the alt. I know of several Sammi's that had to have a direct cable installed from the alt to the battery since something in the harness gave out. In addition to the stock harness, mine also has a direct cable run to the battery like I described.

rubicon4wheeler
01-06-2010, 11:40 AM
I have it hooked up through a dedicated charge cable straight to the battery - there's no way the factory wiring harness can handle 105 amps of juice. I would smoke the stock fusible link with the stock ~40 amp alternator when recharging a deeply discharged battery.

zukinoobi
01-06-2010, 12:49 PM
Subscribed popcornn

Kermit
01-06-2010, 03:54 PM
I have it hooked up through a dedicated charge cable straight to the battery - there's no way the factory wiring harness can handle 105 amps of juice. I would smoke the stock fusible link with the stock ~40 amp alternator when recharging a deeply discharged battery.

Thought I would ask. You never know.

rubicon4wheeler
01-06-2010, 08:39 PM
Alright, I shot a quick little video so everyone can see what I'm talking about:

4rtzEoS8DPg

Itsmejoe231
01-06-2010, 10:20 PM
Just for kicks and grins, cut the wire that is connected to the black and white wire an reconnect it to the positive side of the battery.

then see if it pulses like that.

I was hooking up a 94amp one wire alternator today and did a little testing... When I was hooked to the black and white wire the alternator put out more volts. 15.2vdc and was not as smooth. when I hooked straight to the battery (or to the large post on the alternator, same thing) it put out a smooth 14.6 vdc.

I then tested the voltage coming off the black and white wire and it did not match the battery voltage. not running my battery voltage was 12.6 and the black and white wire was 12.0. I think the voltage regulator is confused and dont know what to do when connected to the black and white wire.

greywolf187
01-06-2010, 10:28 PM
I would check the grounds on both the battery and block. this is after doing Joe's stuff first.

rubicon4wheeler
01-07-2010, 12:21 PM
Well, this isn't a "1-wire" 10SI/12SI alternator. This is the newer-generation "3-wire" alternator.

And I can't see both of our Samurais having the same miswiring or bad ground problems with the same symptoms. Our previous alternators didn't pulse the headlights (mine was a stock Samurai alternator, my buddy's was his 3rd dead "1-wire" 10SI).

If either of us knew more about how alternators and the charge systems worked, we'd be able to diagnose this ourselves.

Itsmejoe231
01-07-2010, 12:31 PM
The one wire and the 3 wire are generally alike. The 12si or the 10si both have 3 wires to hook up just like the "new generation" alternator.

Are you gonna do anything to fix this?

rubicon4wheeler
01-07-2010, 12:37 PM
The one wire and the 3 wire are generally alike. The 12si or the 10si both have 3 wires to hook up just like the "new generation" alternator.

Are you gonna do anything to fix this?

Well we'd sure like to fix it! But I'm not just going to start cutting and splicing wires until I know what I'm doing. All I know is this voltage pulsing can't be good for the electrical system, but the alternators are doing their job of keeping the battery charged. I bought the kit because I don't know much about charging systems, and I didn't want to be chasing down weird problems. But here I am, chasing down the solution to a weird problem. I'm waiting for Adventure Off Road to see the video and offer some insight, but I thought some of you here might either know what's going on, or have run into this problem before and are interested in learning what I learn.

Itsmejoe231
01-07-2010, 12:49 PM
THe black and white wire gets its 12v source from the fuse box. it is not going to hurt to see if it quits surging if you connect the wire to the battery.

It is surging cause there is a difference in voltage between the battery voltage and the black and white wire voltage.

The low voltage on the black and white wire is telling the voltage regulator to put more juice to the system but the alternator is designed to shut down at 16v, so it does. Well when it shuts down it sees the low voltage again of the black and white wire and puts the juice to it again.

The reason most samurai owners have to install a clicky start fix is cause the low voltage coming out of the wiring harness.

rubicon4wheeler
01-07-2010, 12:57 PM
Awesome, that's exactly what I was looking to learn here. :happy Now I know where to start looking/diagnosing. I'll play around with that and see what I can determine. Any other ideas would be appreciated too!

Itsmejoe231
01-07-2010, 01:06 PM
At least do a voltage test on the battery and compare it to a voltage test to the black and white wire.

Test with your key on and engine not running.

zukinoobi
01-07-2010, 01:11 PM
Sounds to me like it couldn't hurt anything to do what Joe is talking about. It's logical, easy enough, and safe.bigok

Here's your chance to step out and teach everyone something new! :jumping:


popcornn

rubicon4wheeler
01-07-2010, 01:16 PM
Yup. Gotta work on this when I get home from work. 2finger

greywolf187
01-07-2010, 07:03 PM
sorry, Joe I can't add to your rep. you're on the right track. here's a web site I like to get Ideas from.

http://www.madelectrical.com/

warbird
01-07-2010, 07:44 PM
These Might Help Too...

http://www.zukikrawlers.com/album.php?albumid=125&pictureid=940

http://www.zukikrawlers.com/album.php?albumid=125&pictureid=941

http://www.zukikrawlers.com/album.php?albumid=125&pictureid=942

http://www.zukikrawlers.com/album.php?albumid=125&pictureid=943

http://www.zukikrawlers.com/album.php?albumid=125&pictureid=944

rubicon4wheeler
01-07-2010, 08:29 PM
Warbird, those diagrams are awesome! Thanks!!!

But how do we know which one we should be using? Which way should we be wiring our alternators up? From the sounds of Itsmejoe231's advice, it sounds like ours is wired like this right now:

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l247/rubicon4wheeler/user7146_pic942_1262911052.jpg

While he's suggesting we should be wiring ours like this:

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l247/rubicon4wheeler/user7146_pic943_1262911052.jpg

Is that right? Am I understanding these diagrams and the advice correctly?
How do we know if we have a PLIS or PLFS alternator? I'm confused now. :rolleyes:

rubicon4wheeler
01-07-2010, 09:05 PM
Alright, I pulled my plug out of the back of the alternator, it's a PLFS one.

So, would it be better for me to run the S wire to the charge terminal on the back of the alternator, or to run it up to one of the + posts up at the battery, or to somewhere else like the fuse box?

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l247/rubicon4wheeler/user7146_pic941_1262910988.jpg

warbird
01-07-2010, 10:09 PM
This is why folks get confused all of the diagramed set-ups will work. There are several "right" ways to accomplish the same thing. More wires are better than less (i.e. a 3-wire set-up will perform better than a 1-wire).

Note: Usually the igntion lead is BLK/WHT and the charge light lead is WHT/RED (but not always)

Itsmejoe231
01-07-2010, 10:47 PM
The cleaner instal is to put the S wire to the charge terminal on the alternator.

rubicon4wheeler
01-08-2010, 12:21 AM
The cleaner instal is to put the S wire to the charge terminal on the alternator.

Obviously. But why wouldn't the alternator be wired internally for this Sense wire to be hooked directly to the charge terminal? There's a reason why the engineers set it up externally, to not come directly off the alternator but to come from a separate external source. Anyone know?

Itsmejoe231
01-08-2010, 07:02 AM
Well you are putting a new style alternator on a 25 year old vehicle that it's electrical system is not the best to begin with.

Most vehicles you can test voltage anywhere through out the system and you will get what the battery is putting out. That would be perfect for your new style alternator.

Like I mentioned before, the reason for the clicky start fix is because of low voltage at the starter solenoid wire.

Did you do a voltage check at the black and white wire and then check your battery voltage?

Note: Some samurai's dont need the clicky start fix and their electrical system is in good shape.

rubicon4wheeler
01-08-2010, 11:27 AM
I preemptively did the clicky starter fix on this Samurai, because I wound up having to do it on my 2 previous Samurais. I didn't check my voltage at the black/white stripe wire yet but I'm sure it's low. I'll check it before I finish up this job, but hopefully this will fix our problem. I'll post back when I get it rewired and let you know if it works. Thanks a lot for all your help!

Adventure-Off-Rd.com
01-08-2010, 12:02 PM
Hi I agree with everything Joe is saying. As I stated to you first you need to test the alternator sepratly from the system. Start from the sorce and work your way back. Have you tried un-hooking the factory charge wire. just leaving the new 6G wire hooked from positive alt to positive batt? Does your buddy have a volt gauge also? Whitout knowing if the alternators regulator is working properly this is all grasping for straws.

truly_5150
01-08-2010, 01:35 PM
sound like a bad voltage regulater, the volt gauge should not pulse like that. it is possable you have a bad alternator, i have gotten bad alternators from part stores before. it happens!

rubicon4wheeler
01-08-2010, 01:41 PM
sound like a bad voltage regulater, the volt gauge should not pulse like that. it is possable you have a bad alternator, i have gotten bad alternators from part stores before. it happens!
That was my first thought too, but how could it happen on TWO different brand new alternators that had their test output spec sheets included? I doubt they're both bad. I'll play around with some wiring this weekend and post up my results.

Adventure-Off-Rd.com
01-08-2010, 01:57 PM
Let me know what you find. If the alternator is bad send it back. I will fix it and tell you what went wrong with it and send it back.These alternators are brandnew and are tested before being sent out. I'm following the thread to see what is going on. This is the first time ive heard of this issue. We learn from our mistakes. Paul

warbird
01-08-2010, 02:28 PM
Beleive me IT IS possible to destroy two new alternators in quick sucession.

The most common mistake on this "upgrade" is to mix up the BLK/WHT & WHT/RED wires. One or both of two things will happen. It will fry the bridge rectifier and/or you will not be able to shut off the engine once you start it.

I too started with an Adventure Off Road kit. Good parts and simple instructions. Followed promptly by plenty of self-induced rotten luck. Misswired (& fried) the first one. Shorted the second with a dropped screwdiver. banghead Third one works Great!

Note: I ended up to shimming & sleeving the bracket to get a good fit. Alt pulley would not stay properly aligned.


Obviously. But why wouldn't the alternator be wired internally for this Sense wire to be hooked directly to the charge terminal? There's a reason why the engineers set it up externally, to not come directly off the alternator but to come from a separate external source. Anyone know?

To answer your question... Connecting "S" to B+ allows the regulator to monitor it's own output. Output "load" is determined by the charge state of the battery. Connecting "S" to a different fused & switched source (usually the ignition) measures the system "load". In theory these loads should be the same but... (this is where the design and physical age of the system comes into play).

OH... for the record I agree with Joe NEATNESS COUNTS!

rubicon4wheeler
01-08-2010, 02:33 PM
You guys are great! Thanks for all the info. As soon as I get some time to finish testing/wiring everything up, I'll post back and let you know what it's doing.

87_bigbadzuk
01-08-2010, 02:37 PM
Wiring up an altenator is simple, not rocket science! Do what you have been told to do by rewiring it to eliminate the Suzuki wiring from the altenator system as most of them are crap. I had the same problem on a 85 chevy truck. Stop beating yourself up over it. Rewire it and test your voltage. Don't just assume!

greywolf187
01-09-2010, 12:35 PM
well what you find??

rubicon4wheeler
01-10-2010, 07:59 PM
Well, that solved the problem completely! :jumping:

The voltage is steady as a rock at 14.6 volts. Now it's behaving exactly how I anticipated it would, none of that varying voltage. The only difference I've noticed now is that the alternator makes more of its "whine" than it did before. I could always hear it before, but now it's making a bit more noise than before - probably because it's charging steadily instead of pulsing the output.

Thanks for all your help, guys! :happy As soon as my buddy gets back from the ship he works on in a week or so, we'll do the same wiring mod and hopefully solve his identical problem.

crazyatvn
01-10-2010, 09:54 PM
Well, that solved the problem completely! :jumping:

The voltage is steady as a rock at 14.6 volts. Now it's behaving exactly how I anticipated it would, none of that varying voltage. The only difference I've noticed now is that the alternator makes more of its "whine" than it did before. I could always hear it before, but now it's making a bit more noise than before - probably because it's charging steadily instead of pulsing the output.

Thanks for all your help, guys! :happy As soon as my buddy gets back from the ship he works on in a week or so, we'll do the same wiring mod and hopefully solve his identical problem.

Good deal which diagram did you end up using?

rubicon4wheeler
01-10-2010, 11:55 PM
Good deal which diagram did you end up using?

This one:

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l247/rubicon4wheeler/user7146_pic941_1262910988.jpg

I found out the hard way that I couldn't just splice in a lead from the alternator's output charge stud to the Sense wire, because as soon as I did so and reconnected the battery's ground, the car's whole ignition system came on. So I had to go back and unplug everything so I could re-do my wiring so the only Sense input to the alternator is from the alternator's own +12v output. Wired exactly as in this diagram, it worked like a charm! smokin

warbird
01-11-2010, 06:36 PM
Did you include any protection for the battery (i.e. fuse, CB, etc.)? If not you might want to consider doing so soon. A fusible link block from an 96+ TracKick makes a great upgrade.

http://www.zukikrawlers.com/picture.php?albumid=125&pictureid=982%22

As you can see I'm a visual aid kind of guy! :-)

billsbar
01-11-2010, 07:28 PM
see all you ha to do was listen to Joe.

rubicon4wheeler
01-11-2010, 08:52 PM
Did you include any protection for the battery (i.e. fuse, CB, etc.)? If not you might want to consider doing so soon.

Yes, I have an inline fuse on the charge wire.

rubicon4wheeler
01-17-2010, 01:17 PM
So we rewired the other Samurai with the same problem, and it cured the pulsing output on that one too!

So, the moral of the story (just like that of the clicky starter fix) is that the Samurai's stock wiring harness sucks and is the cause of the problem. Hooking the Sense wire to the Charge post allows the alternator to output correctly. :happy

warbird
01-17-2010, 04:30 PM
I like whine...

MORE POWER!

greywolf187
01-18-2010, 10:59 AM
good write up and a lot of good help.m2c

this is one of the reasons I get my ideas from here.

overthebars
01-20-2010, 10:58 PM
I don't know if this matters but I too have a simular problem, mine will pulse only when I use either turn signal. so my guess is I have a dead short somewhere in the lighting system. So what I try'd was with the engine not running a took off the positive terminal off the battery and installed a test light from the positive lead on one side and the clamp back on the battery. as suspected it lite up telling of a hidden load, then one by one I removed the fuses, untill the light went out. exposing the circiut at fault. and the problem was in the wiring of my tail lights as I suspected , due to they were not soddered at the time just taped together badly where moisture could get in causing a grounding short. which could be a altenator killer in time plus a battery killer as I have had in the past. To stop the battery kill when no in use I have installed a Battery emergency kill switch. great for roll over protection plus great anti theft device as mine is a daily driver.,.....so my thought check for shorts in your wiring

Merlin93
01-24-2010, 04:02 PM
...why wouldn't the alternator be wired internally for this Sense wire to be hooked directly to the charge terminal?
There's a reason why the engineers set it up externally, to not come directly off the alternator but to come from a separate external source. Anyone know?

In the electronic power supply field, where I've worked for (too many) decades, we call this remote sense. The purpose is to precisely control the voltage at some remote location (instrument cluster, dashboard, etc.). In this particular case, I do not see an obvious advantage. I would agree with connecting the sense wire to the alternator (+) output stud. Also, there's less to go wrong (old Suzuki wiring being what it is).

I'd also SERIOUSLY consider running a separate heavy ground wire from the alternator case ground to the battery (-) terminal. A circuit requires two wires, making an electrical loop through the load. Too often we ignore the return side of the loop. Grounds are a notorious weak spot.

Warbird: Awesome diagrams! You've done everyone a great service.

rubicon4wheeler
01-24-2010, 11:25 PM
I'd also SERIOUSLY consider running a separate heavy ground wire from the alternator case ground to the battery (-) terminal. A circuit requires two wires, making an electrical loop through the load. Too often we ignore the return side of the loop. Grounds are a notorious weak spot.

To where should the ground cable be attached? Anywhere on the alternator, or somewhere in particular?

I've already upgraded my engine-to-battery ground (from the starter motor) but it sounds like you're suggesting something more.

Merlin93
01-25-2010, 01:12 AM
To where should the ground cable be attached? Anywhere on the alternator, or somewhere in particular?
I've already upgraded my engine-to-battery ground (from the starter motor) but it sounds like you're suggesting something more.

On the back of the CS130 alternator there's a tapped boss for a ground connection. It's across from the (+) output stud. Ordinarily, the electrical circuit is completed through the mechanical alternator mounting, which might/could become ineffective over time (corrosion, loose hardware, bad karma, etc.). The regulator uses the case of the alternator as it's "ground" reference, so a poor case-to-chassis connection on the vehicle will result in poor performance. The alternator return connection should be as stout as the (+) connection -- it carries the same current! Although the alternator case would ideally be connected directly to the battery (-), it would suffice to run yours to the engine-to-battery ground at the starter motor, since you've already upgraded that connection and know it's good. Doing this pretty much eliminates need to use the alternator mounting to carry the alternator return current (100A or so) and serves to make the charging circuit much more reliable. It could also be argued that in a perfect world this measure would not be necessary.

rubicon4wheeler
01-25-2010, 01:13 AM
Awesome, thanks!!!

I'll make this upgrade then. :happy

ScotY
01-25-2010, 02:01 AM
What's the difference between a 3 wire and 1 wire alternator? Seems there's really only 1 wire on these 3 wire alt?

warbird
01-25-2010, 01:40 PM
3 wire = 1. Main 12V output for load, 2. 12V system input for volt reg, 3. 12V output for Charge Light

2 Wire = 1. Main 12V output for load, 2. 12V output for Charge Light (12V input for volt reg is "jumped" to Main output)

1 Wire = 1. Main 12V output for load (12V input for volt reg is "jumped" to Main output)

The recommended "external" gound doesn't count.

Note: Stock 8ga Output & Ground wire is suitable for stock loading, BUT, wire size will need to increase as accessories are added.

Merlin93
01-25-2010, 02:11 PM
What's the difference between a 3 wire and 1 wire alternator? Seems there's really only 1 wire on these 3 wire alt?

One wire is the heavy output wire. At 100A it should be #6AWG or heavier and go pretty directly to the battery (+).
Edit: The OEM heavy charge wire is inadequate for the high output current and you will eventually blow the fusible link, usually while trying to charge a low battery. Just fold it back on the harness and tape it off. Try to keep the fusible link as it provides protection for all the rest of the wiring.

The other two wires are for the regulator. One is the voltage sense, which is sometimes made "remotely" to more precisely control the system voltage, and one wire is to "tickle" the field winding and get the alternator started. All modern alternators are self-exciting, but usually need a small amount of current to get started. This current is usually provided through the dash indicator light, which then serves dual purpose, since it goes out as the alternator output voltage rises. There are a number of variations to this general scheme, as studying Warbird's drawings, posted earlier in this thread, will show you. For example, and internal resistor between the sense and regulator circuits can provide the "tickle" current needed at startup.

zukinoobi
01-26-2010, 08:41 AM
One wire is the heavy output wire. At 100A it should be #6AWG or heavier and go pretty directly to the battery (+).

The other two wires are for the regulator. One is the voltage sense, which is sometimes made "remotely" to more precisely control the system voltage, and one wire is to "tickle" the field winding and get the alternator started. All modern alternators are self-exciting, but usually need a small amount of current to get started. This current is usually provided through the dash indicator light, which then serves dual purpose, since it goes out as the alternator output voltage rises. There are a number of variations to this general scheme, as studying Warbird's drawings, posted earlier in this thread, will show you. For example, and internal resisitor between the sense and regulator circuits can provide the "tickle" current needed at startup.

bigok + Rep for thread contribution...

TCZuki
02-18-2010, 04:14 PM
I'm Trying to do this conversion and the alternator that i was told to get as per the instructions wont allow the top holder to be connected. the alternator had a 12 and 4 bolt pattern (meaning one hole at 12 oclock and one at 4oclock) and it was from a 95 chevy 1500. is that the right alternator? should the bolt holes be at 12 and 6 (thats my thinking) any help? canadian part#? oh and if it helps my sami is a '91 tt stock 1.3efi.

str8axleguy
02-18-2010, 10:54 PM
Ya 12 and 6 is what you need. I talked to adventure offroad about it and he said they need to be clocked across from each other. I found a powermaster alt that puts out 140 amps.

skyman
02-19-2010, 08:55 AM
With some alternator you need to notch the top bracket in order for it to drop down low enough to connect the top bolt.

I;ve had to tdo this on a couple of alternator installs.

TCZuki
02-19-2010, 12:23 PM
awesome thanks guys. i was getting a little frustrated when the instructions say something and it doesnt work. all yesterday i tried to get a hold of him and it picked up on the first ring. weird.

greywolf187
02-20-2010, 09:12 PM
I also added a ground wire to the frame. I noticed that my alt gauge is a little more stable.

TCZuki
02-26-2010, 03:46 PM
ok so now i have the alternator installed and im getting between 15.2 & 15.8V at idle, i've tried 2 alternators and both say the same thing. I have the bracket and pig-tail from Adventure-off-road. its 2 wires from a gm plug wired to a suzuki plug and then pluged into the factory plug-in, i also have a 6ga wire from the back of the alt directly to the battery. Now its boiling over my battery. any help?

i have a diagram but i dont know how to post it.

skyman
02-26-2010, 05:09 PM
Do you have the sense wire hooked up to the factory harness (does it connect to the black/white wire in the samurai harness).

If ti does, hook this sens up to the alternator out put (charge wire), or run it directly to the battery. The sens wire is reading low voltage from your factory harness, and trying to compensate. If you run this wire directly to the battery it will sens the batteries state and charge accordingly, otherwise it is reading the voltage from the harness (which is know to show lower than the voltage at the battery)..so the alt assumes it needs to charge and ups the output

TCZuki
02-26-2010, 08:13 PM
so your saying jump the sense wire to the positive, wouldnt it make it a 1 wire setup? not that thats bad or anything, i just liked the 2 wire setup.

walkerskyranch
02-26-2010, 11:42 PM
My head is spinning from reading this post! I love it!

fast question, How should I wire my cs103 alt if I don't have an idiot light.
The "s" always goes to the battery feed.
my option is to use the "I" position ignition circuit ???
do I need a resistor to stop from sending a current up that wire?
http://www.zukikrawlers.com/picture.php?albumid=125&pictureid=944

TCZuki
02-27-2010, 09:35 PM
Thanks A lot for the help joe, my alternator now charges at about 14.7v instead of 15.2-15.7 and boiling my battery over. I would also like to note that i am not very happy with the adventure off rd conversion kit, its expensive, i had to modify it to make it work, the staff were not very helpful in returning my calls or tech support, i had to source a different alternator then the instructions incurred as well as a replacement pulley and to have it shipped to me cost more then the item, i will say that the bracket is well made but not worth the $45. I could have made the whole setup for a lot less then what i paid. lesson learned i guess. thanks again for all the help you forum members provided.m2c,

Tanner

Itsmejoe231
02-28-2010, 10:08 PM
Glad I could help. you should stick around and hang out more often...

badhoopty
04-11-2010, 02:38 PM
this thread helped me. :dance:

i swapped in a 105amp pepboys alternator last night using the same ebay kit.

wired per diagram in kit, and had really weird elec issues like the lights being brighter when the heater was on, fluttering lights, fast idle switch wouldnt work right, etc.

ran the red wire from the alt pigtail to the + on the alt instead of the zuk wiring harness and all is good now.

one little thing about the ebay kit...
i got the kit ages ago, when i did i emailed the seller with a concern about the mount being crooked. nice guy and all, responded saying it was intentional, but the alt will sit crooked once installed, especially if you tighten it down without trying to get it straight as possible first. dont know why its crooked, looks to be room to have it mount square. doubt its angled enough to throw belts or wear the alt bearings, but regardless, it drives me crazy... i'll prolly get another mount from another vendor and hope they arent all like this one.

http://pics.montypics.com/badhoopty/2010-04-11/1271010629_img_3131_1.jpg

Dr_DLH
03-05-2011, 04:33 PM
this thread helped me. :dance:

i swapped in a 105amp pepboys alternator last night using the same ebay kit.

wired per diagram in kit, and had really weird elec issues like the lights being brighter when the heater was on, fluttering lights, fast idle switch wouldnt work right, etc.

ran the red wire from the alt pigtail to the + on the alt instead of the zuk wiring harness and all is good now.

one little thing about the ebay kit...
i got the kit ages ago, when i did i emailed the seller with a concern about the mount being crooked. nice guy and all, responded saying it was intentional, but the alt will sit crooked once installed, especially if you tighten it down without trying to get it straight as possible first. dont know why its crooked, looks to be room to have it mount square. doubt its angled enough to throw belts or wear the alt bearings, but regardless, it drives me crazy... i'll prolly get another mount from another vendor and hope they arent all like this one.

http://pics.montypics.com/badhoopty/2010-04-11/1271010629_img_3131_1.jpg

I got a smaller bushing between the pulley and the alternator which made all the difference in the line up of the belt. Works great. My question is the one on ebay has two wires from the OEM harness hooked up. The seller states its the best way. Well, is it? Why not hook up the other wire and what does it actually do? Hope someone can answer this for me as I really dont like to do half way work or have problems later down the road.

I sure do like this thread!:happy

IHBP
03-06-2011, 12:36 AM
from my experience a true 1 wire gm alternator (10si) truly needs just one wire hooked from the output to the battery and nothing else, no wire to excite the regulator as there is an additional field built in the windings that turns the alternator on at a certain rpm. I have one of these alts for my sami and I love it, when I turn the truck off the fields are dead.

I have another of the same type of alt but not a true 1wire on my tracker in a 10si body and without a wire from the output to the positive of the regulator it *will not* charge at all no matter what speed it is turned.

Just thought I'd point this out in case someone might want to find a true 1wire 10si, I get them through napa for $70 for a 105a.

skyman
03-06-2011, 12:48 AM
Do you know what RPM they fire up at? i would like to run one like this, if it can charge below 900 rpm, i think i am about 850-1100 rpm depending on if the truck is warm or cold.

I was having problems with one of my gm alts not charging until the engine got above...say.. 1100RPM? The alt light would come on when it idled down at stop lights during the night. I would get occasional belt squeal when I was idling for along time with the lights on too.

Zuk Daddy
03-06-2011, 10:10 AM
GREAT INFO!
Im getting ready to do this swap and this has already answerd many of my questions and concerns!
Thanks!
:jumping:

IHBP
03-06-2011, 12:23 PM
skyman- depending on the pulley size on the alternator.. I think most are about the same probably a 2.5" or so vbelt pulley, that's about what mine is, mine kicks off and charges somewhere between 8-900rpm engine speed. I was having the same deal as you with the nocharge at idle so I just turned my idle up to compensate for it, it idles at 1k with no load so as to keep the speed up with lights and blower motor running, with all the lights and fans on it pulls down to idle at about 900rpm.
I only had a problem with belt squeals when I didn't get the belt tight, I used a bigger prybar to pull the alt away and get the belt nice and tight and I've never had a squeal since but I also have the idle set so it's always charging.
I also did some mod to the battery tray and put in a commercial truck battery in my sami, 950CCA. When I start up my sami in the cold, I have the starter on a remote switch and I crank the motor til I get oil pressure on the gauge then I turn on the ignition, so I put a big pull on the battery right off every time I start it cold but the belt doesn't squeal and the big alt charges the battery back up in about 30 seconds.

Copasetic
03-07-2011, 01:02 PM
I too started with an Adventure Off Road kit. Good parts and simple instructions. Followed promptly by plenty of self-induced rotten luck. Misswired (& fried) the first one. Shorted the second with a dropped screwdiver. banghead Third one works Great!

I've been having electrical nightmares ever since I swapped out the motor mounts. My 105 amp unit was working great until I touched a ratchet from the alt to the starter. banghead I was actually adding a ground and a positive straight from the alt to the battery, both 6 gauge wire, but after that it wouldn't charge. I got a new alt, mounted it up and it was making an awful racket, not smelling good at all, and the extra positive wire was warm. Found out the belt was loose so I tightened that up, fired it back up and all seemed ok but still didn't sound or smell good.

Went out the next day and my brand new battery was dead as a hammer. I put the charger on it to charge overnight. I went out just a little while ago, opened the hood and could hear a very low hum coming from the alt. It was also warm to the touch. I turned the key and it fired up and was charging like it should. I cut the engine off and could still hear the hum. I checked voltage at the battery and could see the voltage going down. I unplugged the plug on the alt and the hum stopped. Anyone know what this could be from?

Swath
03-07-2011, 03:40 PM
...here's a web site I like to get Ideas from.
http://www.madelectrical.com/

I have read through that web sites information a number of times. It is a great resource even if you don't buy their stuff.

They talk a lot about "remote voltage sensing" and how important it is to proper system voltage and operation. I'm not great at electrical systems, I can get by usually, but I can tell these guys know their stuff.

I'm kind of curious if this was at the core of what was found to be the problem in this case.

They provide a great electrical system basic concepts write up:
http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/howitworks.shtml

The electrical tech section is full of great info including the above.
http://www.madelectrical.com/electrical-tech.shtml

Copasetic
03-07-2011, 05:26 PM
Found out what my problem was. Before I found out my old GM alt was fried I had changed out the pigtail. Well, as luck would have it, I got the "S" and "L" wires backwards. Now that that part's done, I've got to find out what's got the ECM in limp mode. I swear, if it's not one thing it's another. This all started out as a simple motor mount swap over a month ago. banghead

truly_5150
03-07-2011, 09:27 PM
Per the instructions with this kit (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SUZUKI-SAMURAI-1-3L-GM-CS130-ALTERNATOR-CONVERSION-KIT_W0QQitemZ330390010833QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors _Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item4cecc77bd1). I bought the same kit.bigok

had the same problem with the pulsing? found that the black/white sensor wire was the problem. I just by-passed that wire with a hot lead from the batt. all good now!

hope that helps?